Fieldnote Sep 22 2023 - 5:20pm

Notes 09/22 GREEN Meeting with Margarita:

Ridardo Soto (Principal Planner, Santa Ana Planning Division) - Hoping to have SCAG fund some of the public engagement plan strategies. No notice that this will happen. 

Kim: will the updates change what’s allowed with existing facilities?

Ricardo Soto -   We will be looking at everything. Everything is on the table. The things that do work, we hope to keep in place. But, like the zoning, hasn’t been updated since like the 60’s. 

Kim: current operating businesses could be moved out?

Ricardo Soto -  some could be made non-conforming, but we would have to look at whether they will be asked to leave, to bring them to conform over time

Jose: EJ came to us, through the metal plating company. And then we learned about clean ups, series of other issues. It just keeps growing. Our question, in terms of resident participation. We were not satisfied with the outreach and the response from the city. Over 300,000 people (numbers debatable), we get like 900 surveys. And from the 33 DACs, more than half the city. What we want, how do we make sure these people know about the pollution they are exposed to. That's my top priority. In 2017, we brought AQMD, your department, to the community forum. There were two main questions, what is the cumulative impact of this pollution. When my kid is playing in the yard, and they have asthma. And there are 42 other companies around these schools. And we weren’t notified. And what can the city do to stop more companies coming in, until we know what is going on here, what we are facing. Can we initiate buffers, especially in places like schools and childcare centers. So, outreach is top priority. WE have worked on 1 of those 5 zones. The other side of first street, but there are 3 zones that we have never reached out to. How much outreach has been given to these folks. How can we support your efforts to inform these communities? How many people know, in the city, that these issues exit. And now we have DAC-X, we want to move the needs on getting rid of disadvantages. And we are interested in finding out, we appreciated the timeline and info on who is coming in. but we want to keep communication open. It is a growing concern, the more we learn the more worried  we are and how the inaction over the last 6 years has contributed to that. And how can we change that? To the benefit of the community. 

Ricardo Soto -  community engagement will be key. So a community/public engagement plan is the first priority, first step of the way. We will be working with Margarita. Use the networks that have already been established. 

Marg - incentivize grassroots to being residents they know of to be at the table. We know that works. It has worked here, it has worked elsewhere. If we can get SCAG to fund it. 

Gregg - SCAG and MIG, have those processes allowed you to reflect. 300,000 to 900. That’s a big gap. Have these processes allowed you to reconsider the policies and practices in place, some of the learning happening. 

Ricardo Soto -  public participation is extremely challenging. Learn from the CBOs what is working, not only what is not working. In the GP update, there was trouble collaborating which delayed things and that the city could do more. And so, for this project we are trying to start off on the right foot. 

Gregg: the election of this consulting firm leaves some concerns. Which consulting firm is involved in the conversations has a huge impact. In our research on AB617. What went into the selection of this consulting firm.

Ricardo Soto -  dunno if i should share this. But the sub consulting firm was not the first choice. They traded to make sure that the firm reflected the city’s values of community outreach and incorporation. 

Kim: build off of what communities have already done. For years, asking for a policy like Newark. No more permits until we have adequately characterize pollution. There is a strong base to move from…

Ricardo Soto -  we are not starting fresh. We are building off of the GP update infrastructure. There was a lot of work there. Institutional knowledge we will carry through to this project as well. 

Jose: the resident advisory board, one representative for each of the 5 bundles plus two CBOs, what will be their role? When will that be formed?

MArg: right now taking applications. Some segments, of the 5 areas, did not get enough. Soo trying to reach out and get residents to apply. See where we are at at the end of the month. Share which CBOs have applied. Have a meeting. Prioritize the 77 actions. Knowing that we are building on prior efforts and advocacy. It will be what the group wants to accomplish based on these plans and actions. This is going to be THE voice. We hope they can start us off. So we can have these conversations down the line. If we want to improve disadvantaged communities. Grant writing, working on groundwater, lead, etc. there is a lot of work underway in terms of education and collaboration. But the decision making is next. And working with AQMD. We have emergencies, l like the crematory. Trying to get responses on that from different agencies. We have that at the same time that we are trying to generate these policies. This group will be the spokesperson for the community

Jose: healthy to disagree. I know your heart is in the right place. There is a pile of fliers about the stakeholder meeting. The reason I ask about where we are in this action committee. We look at saddleback, it is very close to one of these clusters where we haven't done outreach. We are going to target a radius around the highschool, about the meeting that is coming up. And it could be a good avenue, if you haven’t received applications from that cluster. … the southwest, that is could be something that you could partner on recruiting. I know you cant make the meeting, but that doesn’t prevent collaborating on outreach for the meeting. And our promotoras can help spread word about the Action Committee.

Marg: yes, the west cluster is one of the areas we need to work on. So, yea, so let me see where we are at. We don't want to rush. What matters is the process. We want to educated about EJ issues. They may take a while to understand why it makes a difference to apply. 

The board asked me for more about how our office works, and how things are changing in our relations with neighborhood associations. As we take on EJ, what other trainings can they expect from us. That has been requested. But, I will let Minh know, and whoever else, to check in, and our team members to definitely participate in GREEN’s event. 

Jose: this is a follow up to the fireworks event that we had with the fire dept. But if they are interested in us coming and talking abut what we are doing outside fireworks, for down the line. The comlink, our relation has been conflicted. The more affluent board members, demographic differences of COMlink. It hasn’t been an invited group. Most of the stuff is in english… but it is also important to inform them about our campaigns. And what is going on with our work. 

MArg: I will incorporate that in my presentation to them. They are all worked up about fireworks, but other things that you all are doing. 

Ricardo Soto -  leaving for another meeting

Kim: real interest in what has worked in other cities. We notice that attorney general just released new guidance with  model policies, it would be nice for that to be included in community presentations. Not abstract things. But real, historical on the ground stories of what has worked. 

Ricardo Soto -  Thank you. I will look into that. 

MArg: for the next stakeholder meeting. I think it’s reached a point, to get a better response… it requires political engagement. AQMD has their board, and you can push the levers, but what we have learned is that the archaic reporting process is not delivering. Logan is fresh in mind. The flames released form the smoke stack. It has been difficult to pressure these agencies. Building went in there to see if it was safe to operate. Nothing to show that it was inoperable, however, we found out from the fire authorities, that there was another fire and that there has been communication from the operator to the fire authority about the smoke, but the community doesn’t hear about that. Like you say in your report, that the burden is not on the community to get reports. 

That is what we are working on. Have the code amendments, what triggers the conditional usse process. And like ,if you use this paint, you have to use “x.” Our staff is working to figure out how to apply these code amendments and keep ing track of notices of approved businesses, from these agencies. Looking for a history of violations from this site to either trigger a delay on approval. Forming the action committee is a priority, looking from more grants. The SCAG is one example. But there are so many grants, without this team, who has the time to prioritize these? That;s where we are at right now,. Also trying to support neighborhoods to do their own flyers to ask for updates in their own meetings. Trying to be more clear about the process in the city. Other agencies are interpreting things incorrectly… these re just some examples, and its about working through this transition and working on ej ahead. 

Just got a new planner, I  was promoted last year. And now Lisbet, the planner, Frank and Alisa and Joseph and Christian to get more familiar abd be more of assistance to communities. 

Jose: can you introduce yourself, Lisbet? 

Lisbet: so, I have worked with the public for over a decade, port of san diego, San Francisco mayor, and Irvine. I am from Santa Ana, and went to school. Came back. Trying to see how impacts can be mitigated. EJ issues have become more prominent. In San Diego, worked on similar issues. Critical to work on communication to get these issues resolved. To resolve the issues together. 

Jose: I ask because the city needs more staff with health background… maybe more engaged on health policy, in my opinion. 

Lisbeth: I agree. I am bilingual. I went to Santa Ana High. Anything I can do to help

Kim: Have an immediate request. Upcoming meeting, we need to get the agencies at the table. Help us get the right people to show up and come prepared, not with what their agency does, but how they can improve/help us reduce disadvantage in these communities. CUPA in particular. It matters if you let them know that you are with us. You add pressure. 

MArg: Sruiti was there, right? So it’s about getting the desired response? 

Kim: well she did not participate much. And she did not respond well in communications beforehand. And we need your help in working on that. I think that having you say you are paying attention as well and you are with us, I think that can help. 

MArg: I worked with DTSC before joining this office. On the legacy of groundwater contamination. More accountability with that agency, because of how tings have gone sideways in LA and around the state. So, they will be accessible. We are using that to our favor. We have a del high groundwater meeting with multiple agencies. And we have been able to engage their EJ staff, with our residents in areas of concern, like by Cherry. And they have had direct feedback from residents about what their concerns are. Help finance or figure out how to get more homes tested. WE learned from people living there, close to Cherry, that there is a groundwater issue there. DTSC was so glad that we partnered with them. We learned that there are more resources to pull in and engage. But it is a site by  site basis. And that is  not what the people want.

With the county, we say we need a public health  nurse or official to help break it down to the public about living in an area with lead, or whatever, and CalEnviroScreen shows it. And that has been a point of frustration from residents. The county is punting it to health in OC. So who among them can help? So we are also contacting the supervisor's office. We do have to engage the political side to move the dial. But like in LA county, in the unincorporated areas, they are accustomed to having the public health nurse come in. And if that is not the same for OC, that needs to change. There is testing they can do. They can deliver and accomplish more. We need to get into their process and get a commitment to explain things and know from the residents, what is the priority. Letting the residents know directly from you. 

With AQMD, more of a challenge because of the process of reporting complaints. They can't accept video. An inspector, once they receive the right amount of complaints, they can go inspect. And this has been happening for a decade. And I don't think they reported the fire to AQMD. the City did, on behalf of the neighborhood, and also for the crematorial bureau. And so we are being asked what the status is, and there is no status quick enough to show an appropriate level of response. 

So, from our land use lens, what can we do? The question is fair, Jose, exploring the legal route. Can we stop chrome plating, even if they are in the appropriate zone? Maybe the NJ model, and taking a look at that. 

Jose: Open house with the water district. The map, we found out about water, lead and air pollution issues. And so, when you select a representative to southeast SA, do they decide whether the emphasis si water, lead, air? That leads to doubt that the representative will be able to be adequately representative. WE have everything. Like, take delhi. If they recommend the focus on water plume… and that means that our work on air pollution gets put on the back burner. 

Getting this community off the ground will be a challenge and also representation. 

Leonel: what happens with repeat offenders, the crematorium, and kingspan, they got caught dumping into the water by coast keepers. Is there anything they can do?

Jose: and Markland, who are also repeat offenders. They are across the street from Kennedy. Across the tracks from the apartments. 

Leonel: Yeah. They have fine them. And that's it. The company doesn't clean up their act

Marg: we escalate the fees and it helps us build a case. If there is a history of violations, but the water staff, they are not enforcing. And that is a wider question. What are the thresholds? If they go back and the violations are not being addressed. We need to hear from that agency. We get pushback “Who are you?” they are not accustomed to that from another jurisdiction, i can imagine form the community. So, we can see if there is something we can do through land use. That is under our control of our domain. For markland, kingspan, crematory, cherry. That’s four. 

Kim: Minh thai says they are not pollution people, so they rely on AQMD. can the attorney genera;’s new guidance change your position? 

Marg: it hasn’t, personally, in my experience, with AQMD. Victor has not replied to me. He has to Jose. Congrats. 

The crematory, they are talking to Joe directly. There is still fact finding, collecting evidence. Their websites aren't updated, i can't find the status on the latest complaint. And it comes out later, and we already have it by then. It really is happening at the level of colleague to colleague. Not form the top. Congrats about the tour

Jose: we’ll see. There is no date. But we..

Gregg: ur Env Law center, 7 pillars, each built with relations built over years. And one of them is air quality and cumulative impacts. I want to offer 2 things. I have worked with EPA on cumulative impacts, Charles Lee, his thing is cumulative impact. We have talked about building out an analysis of local ordinances and state policy innovations. We could do that on behalf of Santa Ana, your organization. I could put resources into that. Look at repeat offenders,  etc. do a survey on these issues. We host policy workshops, confidential interviews with agencies not participating effectively. We could have one around these multijurisdictional problems that emerge in these kinds of updates. We could come up with a time for that. 

Jose: we can go into that. But it has been challenging as residents, how the agencies do not communicate and it is up to us to connect the dots. We keep track because we have no other choice. We breathe this stuff 24/7. Any collaboration with the  law school, we are interested in developing. It has been helpful augmenting our impact. If Marg is facing this resistance…. How are we, residents supposed to have an impact. It makes things difficult. 

Gregg: the grant we are both involved in. That was encouraged by the fact that these agencies have been saying these communications issues have been a priority for decades and nothing has been done. And that has enabled these issues to persist and get worse and it’s not acceptable. 

Jose: the amount of work for us is 4x to move an inch. And if we don't have the right avenues to do some of this work it is just monumental the mount of work we have to do. 

MArg: the climate action plan. Public works is the lead, but we want to make sure that our disadvantaged communities are centered. Because this update will be extensive. And through these partnerships, we can push out  extreme temperature action plans, which are being drafted. So, the community and everyone supporting the community want to be engaged and want to expand these programs which are minimal, 

Frank: gas station that got denied by the applying commission and the developers are appealing and City council will have to decided. It was denied due to close to childcare, other sensitive vectors. 

Jose: the gas station issue across from elementary by main st. failed to do a cleanup. Any updates? 

Marg: yea, they haven’t provided a reason why they should be enforcing the fact they haveent cleaned up. 

Jose: They haven't received the permit? 

Marg: no. But I’ll follow up on that, on Petro-Mart. 

Jose: looking forward to continued collaborations.